I just got stopped by a cop....

Morpheus,

Considering much of what I've read about just David Rockefeller alone, I'd have to respectfully disagree with you.

I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I'd appreciate your opinion and comment (and that of others as well) on the following material (as just one example), if only half of these quotes are trustworthy.

http://www.svpvril.com/nwo.html

Thanks, occasionally I question this.  But those quotes (if only half) are really unsettling.

There is some Order. And it ain't good.

gregroberts wrote:

Warning signs of fascism international | anti-fascism | non anarchist press Tuesday August 02, 2005 07:45 by hrm

Warning signs of fascism

WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM
1. Exuberant nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic images, slogans and symbols - National flags are seen everywhere in public display. Territorial aggression is explained to be mere destiny -- an unbidden greatness thrust upon the nation by history.

It is this burden of unique responsibility that now raises the fascist state above all previous constraint, no longer bound by international obligations, treaties or law.

2. Enemies Identified

This national cause is identified as unity against enemies - The people are rallied around a unifying patriotism directed against some common threat: communists, liberals, a racial, ethnic or religious minority, intellectuals, homosexuals, terrorists, etc.

The state's message is sometimes couched in an easily recognized religious theme. Amazingly, this language is used even when the full context of the teaching shows the meaning to be diametrically opposed. Any dissent is "siding with the enemy", and therefor treasonous.

3. Rights Disappear

Disdain for human and political rights - Fascist regimes foster an artificial climate of fear by intentionally amplifying stress and anxiety. Citizens naturally feel a strong need for security and are easily persuaded to ignore abuses in the name of safety. The few still willing to question are met with bullying and smear campaigns of intimidation.

Legislative bodies, if still in existence at all, are cowed into rubber-stamp submission with occasional ceremonial opposition. The judiciary tends to become activist in support of state views. The public often looks away, or even enthusiastically approves as rights are stripped away.

The concept of the individual inevitably yields ground, exchanged for the promised safety of the all-powerful state.

4. Secrecy Demanded

Obsession with secrecy and national security - The workings of government become increasingly hidden. Questioning of authority is discouraged at all levels of society. From office talk at the water cooler up through the entire apparatus of rule, guarded speech and secrecy become ends in themselves.

Troubling questions are muted and entire areas of scrutiny are placed out of bounds by simply invoking "national security".

5. Military Glorified

Supremacy of the military - The military establishment receives a disproportionate share of government resources, even as pressing domestic needs are neglected. Individual soldiers and military culture are glamorized and made constantly visible.

This provides both an object for public glorification, as well as sharp warning to possibly restless citizens that the power of the state stands close at hand, ready to use its great potential for violence.

6. Corporations Shielded

Corporate power is protected - Typically, a segment of the business elite plays a major role in bringing fascists to national leadership, often from an unsavory obscurity. This marriage of big money and raw violence is often considered by historians to be the hallmark and backbone of fascism.

As these business-government-military interests meld, the significant threat of organized labor is clearly recognized. Labor unions and their support organizations are either co-opted successfully or ruthlessly suppressed and eliminated as soon as possible.

7. Corruption Unchecked

Rampant cronyism and corruption - Fascist states maintain power through this relatively small group of associates, mutually appointing each other to interlocking and rotating positions in government, business and the military.

With this degree of control, they make full use of both official secrecy and the ready threat of state violence to insulate themselves from any meaningful criticism. They are not accountable and are shielded from scrutiny in a way unthinkable in a democratic society.

8. Media Controlled

Controlled mass media - Sometimes the media are controlled directly by clumsy government functionaries. At other times, sympathetic corporate media insiders shape the themes indirectly, and therefor more skillfully. Image regularly trumps content as the "news" is presented breathlessly and with flashy stage effects.

A practiced formula of tenacious repetition brings even the most absurd lie into acceptance over time. By design, the very language itself and the coloration employed will push alternate views "out of the mainstream".

The terms of any remaining debate are narrowly defined to the state's advantage, making it easy to marginalize a truly differing perspective. Censorship and "self-censorship", especially in wartime, is common.

9. Rampant Sexism

Rampant sexism - Governments of fascist states tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Traditional gender roles are made even more rigid and exaggerated. Condemnation of abortion and a virulent homophobia are commonly built into broad policy.

10. Intellectual Bullying

Disdain for intellectuals - Fascist society tends to create an environment of extreme hostility to critical thought in general, and to academics in particular.

Ideologically driven "science" is elevated and lavishly funded, while any expression not in line with the state view is at first ignored, then challenged, then ridiculed and finally stamped out.

It is not uncommon for academics to be pressured to attack the work of their insufficiently patriotic peers. Writings are censored; teachers are fired and arrested. Free artistic expression in new works is openly attacked, and existing works deemed unpatriotic are often publicly destroyed.

11. Militarized Police

Obsession with crime and punishment - Fascist society is often willing to overlook police abuses and forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. Long jail sentences for clearly political offenses, torture and then assassination are at first uncomfortably tolerated, and then start to pile up to become the norm.

Often a national police force is given virtually unlimited power to snoop through the civilian population. Networks of surveillance and informers are employed, both for actual intelligence gathering and also as a means to keep neighbors and co-workers isolated and mistrustful of each other.

12. Elections Stolen

Fraudulent elections - In the disordered time as fascists are rising to power, the electoral arena becomes increasingly confusing, corrupted, and manipulated.

There is rising public cynicism and distrust over what are widely believed to be phony elections manipulated by moneyed influence, obvious media bias, smear campaigns, ballot tampering, judicial interference, intimidation, or outright assassination of potential opposition. Fascists in power have been known to use this disorder as the rationale to delay elections indefinitely.

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?st...

I'll LOL at my own joke.

Good and evil to are relative concepts, nothing is intrinsically good or bad except relative to a particular individual. ~Baruch Spinoza, 1632-1677

n.Delusional

3. Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

 

n. Optimism

1. A tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation: "There is a touch of optimism in every worry about one's own moral cleanliness" (Victoria Ocampo). 2. Philosophy a. The doctrine, asserted by Leibniz, that this world is the best of all possible worlds. b. The belief that the universe is improving and that good will ultimately triumph over evil.

 

n. Realism 

1. An inclination toward literal truth and pragmatism. 2. The representation in art or literature of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form. 3. Philosophy a. The scholastic doctrine, opposed to nominalism, that universals exist independently of their being thought. b. The modern philosophical doctrine, opposed to idealism, that physical objects exist independently of their being perceived.

 

Rickets: Two things torque me, Dennis Kneale - the flipping moron who people pay 100 bucks a month to listen on the CNBBS drivel tube. He professes to be an optimist when he holds and asserts false beliefs strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.

A symptom of mental illness?

And two: People who infer I or others on this site are a bunch of doomers. I think the majority of folks here are concerned realist and are optimistic that because of the preparations they made that they will get through it okay but are guarded given the gradual slippage directly in contrast to our Constitution that we have witnessed.

Watching happy YouTubes and then looking at the pig is nothing more than putting lipstick on her. It is delusional. Calling everyone here a doomer because they are being realist makes little sense. This is NOT the Dennis Kneale CNBBS channel where we are paid to make you feel warm and fuzzy until the end.

It's a free country, you want to watch happy videos and listen to Enya and meditate that life is super - have at it. I'm optimistic I'm doing the best I can and am as prepared as possible and hope to get through it and find a way to do what I usually do - make good out of bad. My grandparents made it but they didn't have to endure a crumbling republic and we were a manufacturing base not a bunch of methadebt addicts.

But please spare me any and all unrealistic views of being optimistic, delusional and realistic. 

Barring some miracle invention of energy or batteries or both - we are without a doubt in for the worst economic nightmare in the past 100 years. This is as precarious a situation as the Cuban missile crisis. People are genuinely concerned about the state of our republic - and when some senior person in the White House can sign an assassination order to snuff out an American citizen - they should be concerned. Think about Mr. Naked pushing naked senators around - how'd you like him signing such an order?

I have several good friends who are in law enforcement. I'm certain they's rather be busting the real crooks than doing traffic duty. I've been in the car doing 95 down the LIE when one got pulled over and then got upset that the officer who stopped him because he had the audacity to say 3 words - two of which were slow down - after getting flipped the badge. Cops are human. Good folk, but human. 

On top of a financial meltdown caused by an elite group of untouchable morons our "democracy" is crumbling.

You want to sing happy songs have at it - but please spare me the Dennis Kneale BS about optimism because it is delusional.

We are NOT a democratic republic any longer. We have seen such a deterioration that many are concerned we can wind up in a dictatorship tomorrow because we are so close.

Me? I'm optimistic these morons run out of money and someone with some financial and constitutional sense (read: A guy like Dr. Rand or Ron Paul (MDs) or Pete Schiff) gets into the White House.

I enjoy debating you, and I respect your opinions a lot - even though they differ from mine - but for cripes sake - please lay off the pessimistic accusations because they are a delusional pile of BS. I hope you are being honest with yourself about the negative potential that this economic Katrina is packing. Some of my friends who ding me for pessimistic doomerism have confessed to being afraid to pop the entire red pill.

Smart but stupid doesn't beat reality. 

Wow! This thread has gone parabolic... Many good points, but I'm only going to respond to one post which I thought was best-written and really came to the crux of how my own thinking on this has evolved:

Thanks for understanding my real point, ao. I'm not sure everyone else did. For the record, folks, my own philisophical views on this are far more in line with AO's and Morpheus' than Rickets. The place where I agree with Rickets is that you really have to figure out what you can change and what you can't, and not let the things you can't change get you down too much. My point in saying "I'm with Rickets" was not to agree with his big picture views - I respectfully disagree strongly with those. But he's right about one very important thing: Making yourself unhappy over something you cannot realistically change just doesn't make sense.

Believe me, I pondered this long and hard. And it's not just a question of cowardice, but also patriotism. I am one of the rapidly growing number of American-born people who have concluded that it was time to get out. The "business decision" part was easy - when I evaluated the financial risks, implications and costs involved, it was a no-brainer. The really hard part of the decision, for me, was the issues of patriotism, duty, and yes, even the question of cowardice.

Speaking only for myself, this came down entirely to the collective views of the other citizens around me. Believe me, I spoke about these matters to just about everyone who would listen. My own views (a year ago) were very much in line with AO's. The government is out of control and its our duty to stop it. I should be willing to give my life if necessary to stand up for what's right, and all that. But the more people I talked to, the more I realized how alone I was. The vast majority of Americans are accepting the United States' transition to fascism with welcoming approval. They believe that trading freedom for safety is a good idea, and seem shockingly ignorant of history and of what I was taught about the reasons the country came into existence in the first place.

If all of the citizens around me were getting ready to fight the tyranny, then I would certainly feel like a coward to just leave and not stay to do my part. But in an environment where the masses are welcoming change like we're now seeing, there was no cause to stick around and support. Sure, there are a small minority of citizens like AO, LogansRun and Morpheus who share the opinions I had about what is happening to America. But they are outnumbered.

In the end, I made the decision that as a non-violent person with no desire to fight the government or anyone else, I was best off just accepting that my version of what America once stood for no longer exists, and that I should just move on without making a fuss. So that's what I did. AO, if you think me a coward for that I do understand and respect your opinion, but I disagree.

I can't speak for Doug, but from a very brief conversation with him, no, I don't think he thinks any place is safe. As I'm sure you know, he is involved in creating an "expat haven" of sorts in the countryside of Argentina. I don't think he has any delusions about that being a safe haven that is somehow magically safe no matter what happens. But he does seem to think that it's a better place to live than the USA. Although the location is not my cup of tea personally, I see his point.

Wow, AO, those are truly great words spoken like a real patriot. All I can say is, I used to feel exactly the same way but when I realized how few people around me shared my views, I decided that trying to change America's course was beyond my reach. Then I realized that I was going to be unhappy if I stayed in the country and watched it continue to deteriorate. So I made the choice to let go and move on. For me, the questions of patriotism and cowardice were resolved by practicality. If I thought I had any chance of making a real difference, I would have felt guilty about leaving. But I don't think I did, so I left. Your mileage may vary, and if you're able to effect meaningful change my hat will be off to you.

All the best,

Erik

1. Erik, not everyone can pack up and leave, a lot of us have family, extended and a lot of us have a good portion of our wealth sunk in our homes.
2. Our businesses or jobs, many spent a life building.
3. Reading about the stops seem surreal, but believable since I have been through 2 recently.
4. Out of all the "stuff" that has gone down - this is the one thing that is tangible. By that I mean: Calling a Congressman is a joke, writing him/her is as futile - the result on a good day - if you don't call them a moron too many times - is a form letter reply. They aren't tangible - they are whores working for the lobbyist.
5. You can't get a hold of Obama and ask him if he is out of his mind allowing American's to be offed by the State Department.
6. But a cop is tangible and most of us were brought up believing they are there to help

In light of that I myself am not surprised and I think for many this event evokes or should I say falls into the category of things they can or at least want to control or certainly change.

Best

Erik,

I have a great deal of respect for you and what you've done and I feel badly that I put you in a position where you feel you have to defend your actions.  I appreciate your explanation and respect your decision.  I have a bit of a problem with Doug Casey's Argentinian enclave since my sense is that it's being done more for his personal profit rather than coming from a place of virtue and I wanted to point out what I felt were the flaws in his thinking.  My statements were primarily directed towards him.

Each man has his own decision to make and that is different for every person.  I'm a bit older than you, have lived a fulfilling life, and have achieved most of my life's goals.  There's not as much of my life ahead of me as there is for you.  As a consequence, I think I'm probably willing to sacrifice more at this stage, perhaps because I have less to lose (with time and opportunity being far more valuable than material accumulations).  I can't say with absolutely certainty that if I were in your shoes, I'd take your path or mine.

As of late though, the question I've begun asking myself is:

"How bad do things have to get before I, personally, do something to try and stop it and change it, regardless of whether I am successful or unsuccessful in doing so?"

I don't have the exact answer yet but I'm working on it.  This man sums up the situation very clearly and simply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZiXsckGHrM&feature=related

I will say that you're exactly the type of person that I wish didn't leave the country.  Unfortunately, there are other good people like yourself doing the same thing for the same reasons.  The question I have asked myself in the past is, was I put here to achieve happiness or was I (or any of us, for that matter) put here for something more important than that?  As much as I enjoy being happy, I would hope that life has a greater meaning than only achieving happiness.  Really ask yourself, what would it take to make me the absolutely happiest I could possibly become?  Project yourself into that situation (and perhaps you are in that situation now, who knows) and ask yourself, how long will the happiness from that situation last and is it truly fulfilling or is there something more?

And thanks for your comments.  I always appreciate and value your intelligent and thoughtful writing. 

No worries, AO, I didn't take it that way and didn't feel I had to defend anything. Thanks for your thoughtful words just the same, though.

Davos,

Yes, I understand that for most people, up and leaving the country isn't realistic or even desirable. Although it was the best choice for me personally, that really wan't my point.

The big thing I learned about myself is that (again, speaking for myself) I was getting angry, bitter and resentful about what was happening to my country. It was bringing me down, making me an unhappy guy, and screwing up my ability to enjoy life.

When I accepted what I could not change for what it was, I was able to relax and be happy again. Even CM noticed immediately when I saw him recently that I was happier and had let go of anger that he had perceived in me previously, but that I wasn't even aware I was harboring.

I'm not trying to say everyone should up and leave the country as I did. All I'm saying is that if you cannot accept what is happening, go out and change it. If you cannot change it, accept it for what it is. But sitting around being angry, bitter, and unhappy because of things you can do nothing about doesn't make sense. Again, I'm not accusing anyone else of holding those feelings. That was my reality, and I didn't even recognize it for what it was at the time. Now that I have accepted that the vast majority of the citizens of the United States don't care about preserving the values that America was all about, I've stopped letting myself feel angry and unhappy about it.

Best,

Erik

Perhaps you recall the millions in the streets in 2002 and 2003 in major world cities protesting the war against Iraq after it had been announced. This attack was only one of several negations of international and US law. These millions will not longer try to influence government by mass demonstration since they've been shown the futility.

It does matter because many of us believe we are in a time warp repeating the horrors of Germany in the 1930's. It's the propaganda and the laws that have degraded civil rights. The Patriot Act was ready to go 9/12.  The populace buys the propaganda; you are either with us or the terrorists. We are at war (not being attacked by international criminals). We must make sacrifices during wartime. Homeland Security will protect you and defend the border. I'm still no sure who is the stand-in for the Jews, but if I were a Muslin or Hispanic in the US I would be wary.

CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) is currently running a 6 part series called "Love, Hate and Propaganda" about Hitler, Goebbels and Germany from 1932 through the war years. Personally I think the only reason for the CBC to do this is the unstated reason to educate Canadians about the parallels with what is happening on our Southern border. My main fear is that they will march in to "reunite the English speaking people". 

Whatever you call them I think there an organizing global cabal. I suspect the NWO and the Rockefellers are just an outer circle. It is estimated that the Rothschilds held half the world's wealth in the 19th century. I don't believe it just disappeared.