I just got stopped by a cop....

Wow, what a thread. I'm a bit taken aback by how much emotion has been stirred up in the conversation.

FWIW, moving out of the country had a huge impact on my peace of mind. I wouldn't categorize the before picture as pessimism and gloom/doom as rickets described; more like anger that my fellow citizens were allowing the government to devolve to the point it has. I'm definitely happier now. I think it a real pity what's happening in America, but I do agree with rickets in the sense that I was allowing what was going on to really get me down and piss me off. I moved on and am much happier.

LR, years ago I would have agreed strongly with you. BTW, there was a time (pre-1980s) when most states would have never allowed this stop. The cops needed probable cause to stop you, period. If your car or physical description matched that of a dangerous criminal they were searching for, that was certainly grounds to stop you. But blanket "everyone gets stopped" roadblocks were upheld as illegal by many courts. The courts also upheld that random drunk driving roadblocks were illegal in most states, but that changed mid-80s. Amazing how something is unconstitutional one year then constitutional the next year, even though the constitution never changed.

I'm not saying this stop was legit - it wasn't. But in this day and age of Americans being targeted by their own government for assasination based on suspicion of terrorism with no habeus corpus, no due process, etc... What I'm saying is that your country has devolved to the point of (literally) extrajudicial executions of citizens at the sole discretion of the State Dept, with no due process. In that environment, to get all riled up over being stopped without probable cause for an ID check is IMHO akin to complaining about a J-Walker during a full-on riot. The disregard for citizens' civil rights has become so eggegious that it's hard for me to get too hung up on the little stuff.

Erik

Eric,

I think your last two paragraphs describe why I'm so angry about this.  I remember as well when even the Drunk Driving stop was considered "Unconstitutional" (which I still fully agree with).  I lived some time in the state of Washington as recently as 10 years ago and they still don't allow this type of stop (unless it's changed since then).  The country has gone so downhill with our rights it makes me mad as hell!

One thing to note on this stop which I should have stated in the beginning.  I came up to a first officer and he said "keep going, the next officer will take care of you".  So they weren't in any hurry to get me or anyone else through.  That in itself, says this was a stop to "just check papers".  

I've also noticed a dramatic increase in speed traps on local roads as well as police officers out of their vehicles at stop signs checking "tax tags".  Obviously, there's a push to increase revenue.  But I've traveled to over 70 countries over the past 25 years.  I've almost been arrested in Ukraine for no reason other than they needed a bribe, Mexico for the same reason, and I've been stopped and checked for ID many times in the Former Soviet Union as well as China/Tibet.  But I can honestly say, I've NEVER been randomly stopped and checked for ID any other time in my life!  

Now, one day later I'm still pretty mad.  I'm also disappointed that some here think this action is "OK", because it's NOT!  As Larry said, you should never be stopped in this country by the authorities without just cause.  That's what our so called "freedom" is supposed to mean.  The officers may have been "just doing their jobs" but IMO, that's not an excuse.  

Thanks guys/gals!

Just curious, where in N. VA was this? I'm in Loudoun.

I don't think people should have to come to the point of deciding between having to flee their own country because of financial looting or Constitutional looting though. Not that I myself am not looking - all options are on the table.

You know, it wasn't the back of the bus and Rosa Parks that started the Civil Rights movement. That was just the popped lid on the pressure cooker.

I think that's what this thread is more about.

Also, sadly, not everyone is in a position to bail. I'd say 99.99999% of us don't want confrontation.

No fantastic choices: Flee into some unfamiliar country 6,000 miles away from family, where English is a second language, or get robbed, watch your standards of living and standards of Constitutional rights get trashed.

It is evident, by the comments within this thread, that people are getting pretty sick and tired of getting ripped off and being told to sit on the back of the bus.

Great thread, and LogansRun, I hope you take a roll of toilet paper and a copy of the Constitution and send it to who that cop said to complain to:

Tell him that you are very disappointed that they, and the men in blue army fatigues that are paid with our tax dollars to uphold the Constitution --- can't differentiate the difference between what we wipe our @ss with and what we deem as sacred. That being the case you should suggest that maybe they should consider a new career - one that is less mentally challenging. Something like: Paper or plastic. Or, Fries or mashed potatoes. 

Good point Davos.  If we as citizens just "turn our heads" to this type of behavior by the authorities, they'll just take the next step, which will be asking you to get out of your vehicle and do a pat down with no just cause.  Then where does it go?  Ask the Jews before Hitler made it an outright crime to be Jewish how things started and you may see our future.  Is that an extreme case?  Sure.  But again, history shows that it HAS  happened over and over again.  And if you take the stance that "They're just doing their jobs" or "Give them a break" or "This is such a nit pick thing to worry about when much bigger issues are around us" then you're asking for less liberty IMO.

Steve, I was actually on Sycolin Rd. in Loudoun.  Took a right off of Belmont Ridge onto Sycolin where the construction is taking place.  They had stopped traffic just before the bridge that goes over the Greenway.  Perfect spot where you can't see it happening when you turn onto the road and you have to go down around the corner and BANG!  They were Loudoun County Sheriff.  Have you noticed the Sheriffs in the area standing at stop signs checking decals?  Or the many speed traps with lasers and cops standing with whistles waiting to pull you over?  Just yesterday I noticed 3 speed traps (description above) and 2 areas where the cops were looking at decals at stop signs.  Puckers me to no end!

Also, my attorney is out of town until Monday but I did get a call from him.  We'll be chatting then.  I'll let you know.

LR and Davos,

Guys, believe me, I feel for you. I have been every bit as angry as you guys are about this, to the point that it made my blood boil and I was outwardly ANGRY at other Americans who, like a few commenters in this thread, took the stance that all this crap was "for our own good", protection from terrorism and all that.

Ok, so now that I'm [apparently] on a tear here, I bet you're expecting me to go off with an angry tirade about loss of freedoms and rights in America. Nope, I'm heading in the exact opposite direction, believe it or not. I'm with Rickets. It's just not worth getting yourself riled up over. The country (meaning the lion's share of the public) is bought into this stuff. They're too dumb to realize what they are giving up, they don't see the problem the way you do, and they're not going to change.

LR, I want to share with you something that Doug Casey said to me a year ago at Freedom Fest in Las Vegas, after I had been ranting about some similar issues. Doug said, "Look, I know this is hard to accept, but if you want to start making more rational choices, you gotta get this through your head: America is gone. It was quietly phased out shortly after 9/11. All that's left is the United States, and it's just another f*cking country. I know you don't like it and neither do I, but that's reality and the sooner you accept it the better off you'll be."

I was quite offended at first when Doug said that. How DARE he say something so absurd as America no longer exists. But when I thought logically about everything I learned in grade school about what made America special and unique, I realized he was right. The critical point to understand is that this has happened with the vast majority of the public cheering the government on for their initiatives to make us "safer". If everyone saw this the way you and I do, LR, I would say stand up and fight! Get that lawyer to sue the attorney general for allowing this travesty of justice to continue!!! But the reality of the situation is that the bill of rights is for all intents and purposes a dead letter. The stuff you learned growing up about your country and what made it different than any other country on earth no longer applies.

I have pondered long and hard what could have happened to lead to the national attitude that leads the populace on whole to accept the loss of their civil liberties, and have a few ideas. But it doesn't matter. LR, you as one guy are not big enough to change the world. You plus all the other outraged Americans might have a chance of making a difference, but the other Americans (for the most part) don't share your outrage. If anything they feel that these sorts of measures are "necessary and appropriate". So long as the majority thinks that way, there is no hope of changing anything and you are just making yourself unhappy by getting riled up about it.

I hope you'll take rickets words to heart. Change the things you cannot accept, but accept the things you cannot change. They say Wisdom comes from knowing the difference. It sucks, dude, but you can't change this. The sooner you accept that America is gone the happier you'll be. Look on the bright side. Sure, you now live in a country where the government does what it wants and the rights of the individual are relatively inconsequential. But hey, that's the way almost all countries have operated for centuries, and the rest of us outside the USA put up with the same stuff. You were really fortunate to have lived PART of your life during the anomaly where the people of one country actually had rights that were inalienable, and where the courts would uphold those rights against the will of the state. You're blessed to have lived during the time when this was the case, and you should be thankful for it. Living the rest of your life like the rest of the world has always lived, under a government that does what it wants and restates its own laws to its own convenience really isn't so bad once you let go of what you used to have.

I really mean this, LR. You have a choice of holding on to your (admittedly, very admirable) philisophical values and being miserable, bitter and angry, else you can let go and accept reality and be happy again. It would be different if everyone felt like you do - then there would be a cause to fight for. But you're in a small minority and you're outnumbered. Get over it, accept reality and be happy again. That's what I did, and I'm a much happier person for it.

Best,

Erik

I guess I'm still a little disturbed by a simple traffic stop being conflated into yet another step on the ladder to totalitarianism.  It's not that I don't get upset by being stopped at checkpoints or anywhere else for no good reason.  I do.  And, I certainly decry the increasing prevalence of cameras everywhere recording every move of my life. 

But, I long ago came to realize that driving is not a "right" or "basic freedom", it is a privilege.  Public streets are the turf of our governments, not my personal backyard.  Consequently, in order to enjoy the ability to get from here to there easily and quickly, I have to comply with a set of rules.  The justufication for many of these rules is public safety.  And, I have to admit, the roads are much safer than when I was a kid.  The national death toll on our highways has gone down from 50,000 in the 60's to something over 30,000 last year despite there being far more cars on the roads.  Some of this is attributable to safer cars (mandated by law), but much of it is because of regulation of our driving behaviors.  So, I think its fair to admit that having police on our highways behaving in sometimes authoritarian ways is at worst a mixed blessing.

Of course, much of this will likely become moot when peak oil impacts our transportation sector.

Doug

'

"Of course, much of this will likely become moot when peak oil impacts our transportation sector."

Doug

Yep except when they stop you crossing a street on your bike or on foot. 

V

PS If This thread continues it will quickly surpass the Definitive Firearms Thread............now THAT is interesting