Dealing with thieves

Theft of your supplies is a major issue.  Check out at least these three posts in the "What Should I Do" section. There are others that bear on this subject too.

Protecting Yourself Against Crime and Violence (thc0655)

Fortifying Yourself And Your Home Against Crime (thc0655)

Preparing for Economic Collapse (FerFAL)

Protecting supplies you have in your home is an easier problem to solve than protecting crops and livestock you are growing outside your home. I'm smack in the middle of a large urban area and on my property there isn't even a cup of dirt in which to grow things and no access to sustained, direct sunlight so this isn't a problem I currently have to face.  But from the experience of others it seems if you are going to be relying on food you raise yourself and theft is an issue, then you'll have no choice but to guard it 24/7 and guard it armed. Obviously, a team or community-wide effort will be required.

What about beggers?  Its a moral question.  There would be innocent, honest, nice people that are hungry.  Do you think that in such an event, people could be recruited to assist in growing food, rather than turned away?

Bientum

How much land do you have? How much more of a labor benefit would be derived from taking a person or a family in, if they are extra mouths to feed and bodies to warm, but they don't have the skills or the stamina, the experience or the enthusiasm?

How about trust? It makes more sense to stick with family and very close friends. After all, what's to stop them from betraying you, selling you out to outsiders, stealing from you when you are not waching, or killing you in your sleep (or when you are hunched over trying to milk a cow or under a tractor trying to make repairs) to make out with your supplies?

If you offer food or assistance to beggars, they're likely to come again. Or tell on you to organized criminals (whether voluntarily or under duress), or attack you themselves, knowing what you have. If you don't offer food, it's possible they might do the same. So you have to find the right approach, and a way to make sure you, your spouse, your children, and any others with you, are not too vulnerable to such appeals for mercy that they can't keep safety and security foremost in mind.

Note: As you may have read about elsewhere on-line, being isolated out in the country isn't necessarily the best thing. If you have fields, a garden, and animals to tend to, you'll be exposed to someone from a distance with a high-power rifle and scope. If you are wounded, your cries of pain may draw others in your house to come out to help you. If your home isn't of reinforced brick or masonry, your doors and walls (siding, insulation, drywall) can be penetrated by bullets and your roof is vulnerable to arson.

Poet

I have pretty much planned for my family's needs and left some room for my neighbors.  I do plan, however to have several thousand dollars available when things start collapsing, and if I have the time go purchase 50 lb bags of rice, flour, and cans of Spam.  Like I say, I do have neighbors and my back yard is walled in.  I have doubled and replaced all outdoor lighting and put in an updated security system.  I have never believed in guns, but I did purchase one.  My plan, basically, is to work amically with as many people as possible, but if the security situation got out of had, I want to be prepared.

I am, also, keeping on hand extra seeds and supplies for gardens that I can co-op with my neighborhood.  None of this has been discussed with my neighbors as they would think I was crazy.  So I guessmy plan is to share as much as possible.

I am not wealthy or anything, but had just enough money to be able to plan this way since I had gotten out of all my debt..

Best to all,

Ernest

Hi, OK I agree.  It would be better to bunker down in an inconspicuous place, not a farm.  It would be best to hide away for a few months and then come out to farm in a secluded place.  

Its just scary that millions of innocent people would be left helpless.  There is no choice though if they could not be fed. 

How do you think people in developing countries that already live with self sufficiency will cope?  For example, many in Papua New Guinea already walk and live off subsistence farming.  Their lives would barely change whilst developed worlds would dieoff. 

Hi Ernest, regarding neighbours and community, it is possible that there could be a mass change of thinking.  The idea of an extinction event could become institutionalised if it hits mainstream news.  Its possible that 90% of people might start growing sweet potatoes and potatoes in their back yard with a small water tank.  Potatoes are the only crop that are not so prone to theft from wildlife.  How do you think this would change things?  Survival like this could cause even more crime as most people would be alive for longer and hungry. 

bientum, I completely agree with where you think things could go.  That is why I have made more preparations than I list on here.  I have a Naturapathic  Doctor who believes people will react well.  However, she just moved to Vermont from the south because she felt things would go better there.  Honestly, I think the world has become so materialistic that we could easily have a nuclear war.  Aren't things wonderful?  After what I learned from the Carzine debacle, I emailed my broker to have the few stocks I have left registered with the company directly.  I do not want them in broker name.  The Europeans seem to want to make the world collapse they are having so much trouble settling things.  If we make it to a public understanding of Peak Oil we'll probably be lucky.  I just feel like anything could collapse the financial system.  So I'm going to get my Westie, give him a hug, and go for a walk. Best Wishes, Ernest

 I am watching the entire 3 hours and 20 mins of this very informative DVD (iso file).

 However I am very disappointed in the title of this thread and the responses thus far. Since we have never solved the racist employment/wealth disparity problem in America. Those (White) of more means will flock to rural areas of America leaving mostly minorities to suffer in urban areas or under threat of murder in order to protect your flock/family/property (Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina).

 My goal is to protect THEM (minorities) from the likes of YOU (foolish greedy/selfish White Males), likely never to be welcomed back into the cities in which you abandoned instead of tried to build community and help create a world of love and non-violence. Since violence is how White Men have gained anything on this planet, it should be of no surprise that in a worst cast senario of a crashing economy he would instead HOARD and then protect his property with deadly force.

 While there is no where to hide, I plan on relocating OUTSIDE of America because I know what would happen in a crashed economy, minorities would become the target of all sorts of trumped up charges and vigilanty justice (Aftermath of Kartina). In the mean time I will try and see if I can come up with an idea or ideas for places like South Los Angeles don't become suffering wastelands. Which I sort of doubt would happen anyway, but none the less they need to depend less on Governments and more on skills they can develop. Also since most people in South LA own their property, re-imaging that area is not as hard as it sounds I don't believe.

 I know what I said in the paragraph two is already happening (scapegoating of minorites) so you can't deny that. You may personally not habor any ill feelings but in the end you'll support such hate speech, fear mongering as most people will.

 This is why I support the Venus Project because Western Society needs a reboot after 300 years of unfair practices and using differences in skin color or embracing religion to keep the Status Que.

[Moderator' note:  This post is a violation of the forum rules.  Appropriate corrective action has been taken with the poster.]

Sounds like you're every bit the racist as those racists you are condemning.  I'm flagging your post.

djfourmoney,  I am not going to opine on your views, but in the long run Earth can only support around 1 or 1.5 billion people.  That is going to mean some bad things along the way, but that's probably over 100 yrs.  In the short run, I've tried to put aside food and plan to buy more for people in need.