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An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

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JAG
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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

This observation by John Mauldin gave me pause about my belief in the End The Fed movement:

For the record, I do not think the US will experience hyperinflation as long as the Fed maintains its independence. Read the speeches from various Fed governors and regional presidents. These are strong personalities, and they understand that going down that path ends in massive tears. Bernanke warned just a few weeks ago that the government needs to get serious about the fiscal deficit. Watch the rhetoric from the Fed heat up after his reconfirmation and the confirmation of two new governors in the first quarter.

The Fed has committed to buy a fixed amount of government debt in its quantitative easing program. That commitment will be finished by the end of the first quarter (if I remember correctly). Then comes the tricky part.

I have been writing for a long time that the main force in the economy right now is deflation. The Fed will fight deflation tooth and nail. But they don't have to buy government debt to fight deflation. They can buy mortgage securities, credit card securities, commercial paper, etc. That will have the effect of easing without encouraging the government to run massive deficits. And such debts are naturally self-liquidating, while government debt is not, at least not in the same way.

I believe the Fed will maintain its independence. Not to do so is to court economic disaster of the first order. These are bright and serious men and women. They get it.

Perhaps he has a point (implied) that the "replacement" for the Fed would be worse than the Fed itself.

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

rowmat wrote:

You mean he's in 'THE' club...

FWIW, I got my degree from Wesleyan University in Connecticut, which also has a S&C chapter.  Part of my frat's Hell Week took place inside their confines.  And I can guarantee (knowing some of the members personally) that these fellas are not running the world.  Which prolly won't change anybody's mind about the Yale chapter, but...

Viva -- Sager

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

SagerXX wrote:

rowmat wrote:

You mean he's in 'THE' club...

FWIW, I got my degree from Wesleyan University in Connecticut, which also has a S&C chapter.  Part of my frat's Hell Week took place inside their confines.  And I can guarantee (knowing some of the members personally) that these fellas are not running the world.  Which prolly won't change anybody's mind about the Yale chapter, but...

Viva -- Sager

Come on, Sager;

Personal observation of innocuous collegiate behavior of a few young and therefore, recent  inductees into Skull and Bones doesn't exonerate the whole group.  Nor has anyone with any sense suggested that these folks "run the world" . . . But it is a matter of public record that they find their way into the presidency and both houses with startling regularity.  It seems that they are the lackeys of those who do hold the reins. 

 

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

JAG wrote:

This observation by John Mauldin gave me pause about my belief in the End The Fed movement:

For the record, I do not think the US will experience hyperinflation as long as the Fed maintains its independence. Read the speeches from various Fed governors and regional presidents. These are strong personalities, and they understand that going down that path ends in massive tears. Bernanke warned just a few weeks ago that the government needs to get serious about the fiscal deficit. Watch the rhetoric from the Fed heat up after his reconfirmation and the confirmation of two new governors in the first quarter.

The Fed has committed to buy a fixed amount of government debt in its quantitative easing program. That commitment will be finished by the end of the first quarter (if I remember correctly). Then comes the tricky part.

I have been writing for a long time that the main force in the economy right now is deflation. The Fed will fight deflation tooth and nail. But they don't have to buy government debt to fight deflation. They can buy mortgage securities, credit card securities, commercial paper, etc. That will have the effect of easing without encouraging the government to run massive deficits. And such debts are naturally self-liquidating, while government debt is not, at least not in the same way.

I believe the Fed will maintain its independence. Not to do so is to court economic disaster of the first order. These are bright and serious men and women. They get it.

Perhaps he has a point (implied) that the "replacement" for the Fed would be worse than the Fed itself.

Bingo!  It's time we start looking past the impulse to pull the son-of-a-guns down, to what would happen if we did so.  This economic situation is like a highly unstable pile of rubble.  We have to be very careful which pieces we pull out before we've got all of our institutions and economic structure clear of the wreckage.  We need to think this thing through very, very carefully.  Ill advised as the institution of the Fed was, it may now be the only thing between us and economic collapse with subsequent slavery to the powers that control the IMF. 

She may be an ugly whore . . . but she is our whore . . . and we do have some power over whether she exists, and what she does.  We are only one of many nations in the UN and IMF.  If we become utterly subject to them, it is game over.

 

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

 

Everyone should max out their credit cards, cut them up and toss them on the Steps of the FED.  Then start writing Bounced checks, and say, you are just practicing Fractional Reserve Banking!

 

 

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

My apologies for the broken link on the page to which my original post refers.  Here is a link to the article in question:  http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=114624

Excerpt:

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, has complained that the bill he sponsored calling for an audit of the Federal Reserve has been "gutted" by congressional committee, pointing specifically to a legislator whose campaign coffers have been boosted by the banking industry.

As WND reported, Paul sponsored H.R. 1207, a bill requiring the Federal Reserve – an organization that's independent from the U.S. government but nonetheless oversees U.S. monetary policy – be opened to oversight by Congress. The plan compiled over 300 co-sponsors in the House before being sent to committee.

But in a telephone interview with a Bloomberg reporter, Paul said the teeth have been ripped out of the bill.

 

Like many, I think that Ron Paul is a well intended gentleman trying to do the right thing about an institution that is not what it seems.  It is my intention, in starting this thread to discuss what the ramifications of this development might be. 

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

Cloudfire wrote:

Like many, I think that Ron Paul is a well intended gentleman trying to do the right thing about an institution that is not what it seems.  It is my intention, in starting this thread to discuss what the ramifications of this development might be. 

Cloudfire

I'd like to think Ron Paul is more than a "well intended gentleman trying to do the right thing." I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he's doing. Although, according to people who know him, he can sometimes be dangerously naive and disengaged when it comes to personal and tangential stuff - hence the racial newsletters and other PR debacles - probably no one understands the machinations of Washington and the Washington/Wall Street alliance better than him. Paul is a very wise man. So I suspect this is exactly the outcome he expected. What is gained here, is hopefully a significant advance in public awareness. The men behind the curtain will not yet be exposed, but very significantly, the notion that there is in fact a curtain behind which they are hiding is gaining traction.

Cloudfire wrote:

It's time we start looking past the impulse to pull the son-of-a-guns down, to what would happen if we did so. 

I think that's the key thing. If the aim is to get rid of the Fed, exactly what is our "better idea?" Simply nationalizing it would surely be an improvement, and might actually be possible, but it would still leave many of our most vexing problems in place. If the goal is to live in a better world, we probably all agree, we need a new monetary system. But even here on this site, we can't come close to agreeing on what that should be. Chris Martenson presumably favors Austrian School, PM commodity money, as do many, here. But others prefer Bill Still (The Money Masters), Ellen Brown (Web of Debt) Greenback style, non debt-based treasury fiat money. And of course there are many other ideas, too, like Paul Grignon's "Digital Coin, and Jordan McCloud's "New Currency" or Bart Klein Ikik's "Natural Money," both very similarly based on Silvio Gesell's ideas. 

This is all WAY above my pay grade, but to me they ALL have problems. PMs leave us vulnerable to hoarding and manipulation. Treasury fiat money leaves us reliant on the government and still vulnerable to inflation, and the other systems all use some kind of demurrage which would seem to make saving problematic. But even if we could somehow miraculously agree on something, more difficult questions arise. How would we transition without complete chaos and calamity? And if that's somehow possible, unless we can get the rest of the world on board with us, how would we interact with other countries? Would they be able to outgun us with their steroidal fiat printing presses? Obviously I'm a lot better with the questions than the answers, but I do know one thing. This won't be easy!

Cheers

Greg

 

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

GregSchleich wrote:

Cloudfire wrote:

Like many, I think that Ron Paul is a well intended gentleman trying to do the right thing about an institution that is not what it seems.  It is my intention, in starting this thread to discuss what the ramifications of this development might be. 

Cloudfire

I'd like to think Ron Paul is more than a "well intended gentleman trying to do the right thing." I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he's doing. Although, according to people who know him, he can sometimes be dangerously naive and disengaged when it comes to personal and tangential stuff - hence the racial newsletters and other PR debacles - probably no one understands the machinations of Washington and the Washington/Wall Street alliance better than him. Paul is a very wise man. So I suspect this is exactly the outcome he expected. What is gained here, is hopefully a significant advance in public awareness. The men behind the curtain will not yet be exposed, but very significantly, the notion that there is in fact a curtain behind which they are hiding is gaining traction.

Cloudfire wrote:

It's time we start looking past the impulse to pull the son-of-a-guns down, to what would happen if we did so. 

I think that's the key thing. If the aim is to get rid of the Fed, exactly what is our "better idea?" Simply nationalizing it would surely be an improvement, and might actually be possible, but it would still leave many of our most vexing problems in place. If the goal is to live in a better world, we probably all agree, we need a new monetary system. But even here on this site, we can't come close to agreeing on what that should be. Chris Martenson presumably favors Austrian School, PM commodity money, as do many, here. But others prefer Bill Still (The Money Masters), Ellen Brown (Web of Debt) Greenback style, non debt-based treasury fiat money. And of course there are many other ideas, too, like Paul Grignon's "Digital Coin, and Jordan McCloud's "New Currency" or Bart Klein Ikik's "Natural Money," both very similarly based on Silvio Gesell's ideas. 

This is all WAY above my pay grade, but to me they ALL have problems. PMs leave us vulnerable to hoarding and manipulation. Treasury fiat money leaves us reliant on the government and still vulnerable to inflation, and the other systems all use some kind of demurrage which would seem to make saving problematic. But even if we could somehow miraculously agree on something, more difficult questions arise. How would we transition without complete chaos and calamity? And if that's somehow possible, unless we can get the rest of the world on board with us, how would we interact with other countries? Would they be able to outgun us with their steroidal fiat printing presses? Obviously I'm a lot better with the questions than the answers, but I do know one thing. This won't be easy!

Cheers

Greg

Thank you, Greg . . . You spoke my mind better than I have . . .

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

As I have stated before, auditing the Fed was always a waste of time. 

Hopefully now, others will unite in the initiative to END the FED.  They have failed their charter by every measure and they must be fired.

Nothing other than a popular uprising of the people will end the fed.  We need to protest in mass and demand they be fired.  Then, as part of a RICO criminal investigation, they will get their audit along with the confiscation of their assets.

Larry   

I agree. A while ago I too predicted that it would NEVER pass. There is simply no way in hell that a plutocracy is going to give up reins over the most powerful nation on Earth (whose power is falling parabolically) and control over 300 million subjects without a fight. And by fight I think they'd have their NATO allies invade us and silence us before they'd even consider letting the American Public regain control over their destiny.

 

I know that sounds absolutely crazy. Trust me, it sounds crazy to me. But I think that there is ZERO hope that the establishment is every going to listen to us. For the following reasons:

1. The are arrogant beyond human comprehension. They rule as lords and corrupt roman senators.

2. Too many people narcotized by crappy "education" and empty calorie information such as mainstream media, NFL football, and sitcoms.

3. They've mastered social psychology beyond what we can comprehend.

 

Most people do not know the true nature of Pavlov's experiment. True, we all know how the dog was repeatedly given a treat after sitting in a room and having a bell rung. The conditioned response was that the dog would salivate upon bell ringing regardless of whether it was given a treat or not.

But the same dog was also subjected to infliction of severe pain after the lights were turned out in the room. So the dog learned to cower defensively in the corner everytime the lights were turned off. Again, conditioned response.

Then the REALLY INTERESTING experiment occurred. The one that few people are aware of.

The lights were turned off and the bell rung at the same time! What happened? Well, the dog was paralyzed like a deer in the headlights. It didn't know what to do. Salivate? Or cower?

So it shut down psychologically. It could do nothing due to intense congnitive dissonance, It's "reasoning power" was shorted out by two dramatically opposite stimuli that produced two antipodal emotional states.

 

That's what is used on US by the meatheads. If given a reasonable fair play in the court of public opinion, the Audit the Fed Bill would pass with an overwhelming majority of the serf's support because no serf would willingly oppose action that was in his/her best interests.

However, toss at the serfs a media/political relations blitz of how a FED audit would destroy their livelihood and consume their children and a conditioned public will just completely shut down. Just like Pavlov's dog when presented with two opposing stimuli.

The "don't care" effect would kick in. Not knowing which answer (audit the FED and gain freedom, or audit the FED and depravity, starvation and seven years of tribulation befall them and their children) is correct, and faced with an apparent catch-22, the sheeple will merely shrug their shoulders and shut down.

This is EXACTLY what I predict is going to happen. This bill will get pushed, and the plutocracy will trot out the age-old, tried and true method of mass propaganda to confuse, bewilder, and paralyze the emoting, non-thinking public.

That's next. I bet 10 Federal Reserve Notes on it. I am so sure of this that I believe that it's debt-based financial instruments in the mattress ("money in the bank").

__________________

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Re: An American Traitor Guts Ron Paul's Bill

Morpheus wrote:

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

As I have stated before, auditing the Fed was always a waste of time. 

Hopefully now, others will unite in the initiative to END the FED.  They have failed their charter by every measure and they must be fired.

Nothing other than a popular uprising of the people will end the fed.  We need to protest in mass and demand they be fired.  Then, as part of a RICO criminal investigation, they will get their audit along with the confiscation of their assets.

Larry   

Thanks, Morpheus.  You've sold me.  I completely agree that they've social engineering skills beyond our imagination.  I've seen it in action.  This is also why I believe that the only way out of this mess is spiritual.  Until we disconnect from the salivating/cowering response set, they can play us like fiddles.  But . . . . If we can disassociate ourselves from the carrot and stick view of our world, then we've got another game, entirely.  And . . . . I've also seen that scenario in action, and I can tell you that it is more powerful that any social engineering they might devise.

 

I agree. A while ago I too predicted that it would NEVER pass. There is simply no way in hell that a plutocracy is going to give up reins over the most powerful nation on Earth (whose power is falling parabolically) and control over 300 million subjects without a fight. And by fight I think they'd have their NATO allies invade us and silence us before they'd even consider letting the American Public regain control over their destiny.

 

I know that sounds absolutely crazy. Trust me, it sounds crazy to me. But I think that there is ZERO hope that the establishment is every going to listen to us. For the following reasons:

1. The are arrogant beyond human comprehension. They rule as lords and corrupt roman senators.

2. Too many people narcotized by crappy "education" and empty calorie information such as mainstream media, NFL football, and sitcoms.

3. They've mastered social psychology beyond what we can comprehend.

 

Most people do not know the true nature of Pavlov's experiment. True, we all know how the dog was repeatedly given a treat after sitting in a room and having a bell rung. The conditioned response was that the dog would salivate upon bell ringing regardless of whether it was given a treat or not.

But the same dog was also subjected to infliction of severe pain after the lights were turned out in the room. So the dog learned to cower defensively in the corner everytime the lights were turned off. Again, conditioned response.

Then the REALLY INTERESTING experiment occurred. The one that few people are aware of.

The lights were turned off and the bell rung at the same time! What happened? Well, the dog was paralyzed like a deer in the headlights. It didn't know what to do. Salivate? Or cower?

So it shut down psychologically. It could do nothing due to intense congnitive dissonance, It's "reasoning power" was shorted out by two dramatically opposite stimuli that produced two antipodal emotional states.

 

That's what is used on US by the meatheads. If given a reasonable fair play in the court of public opinion, the Audit the Fed Bill would pass with an overwhelming majority of the serf's support because no serf would willingly oppose action that was in his/her best interests.

However, toss at the serfs a media/political relations blitz of how a FED audit would destroy their livelihood and consume their children and a conditioned public will just completely shut down. Just like Pavlov's dog when presented with two opposing stimuli.

The "don't care" effect would kick in. Not knowing which answer (audit the FED and gain freedom, or audit the FED and depravity, starvation and seven years of tribulation befall them and their children) is correct, and faced with an apparent catch-22, the sheeple will merely shrug their shoulders and shut down.

This is EXACTLY what I predict is going to happen. This bill will get pushed, and the plutocracy will trot out the age-old, tried and true method of mass propaganda to confuse, bewilder, and paralyze the emoting, non-thinking public.

That's next. I bet 10 Federal Reserve Notes on it. I am so sure of this that I believe that it's debt-based financial instruments in the mattress ("money in the bank").

__________________

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