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2011 USA elections - do any candidates get the 3 E's? At all?
Hold onto your hats, we are coming into the American election cycle. To that end, I want to ask if you know of any candidates that seem to get the 3 E's--local, state, or national--to any degree. If so, I hope some of these people are not only electable but elected. We need all the clear-thinking leadership we can get.
Let me state right here that while I know our current system is doomed, many more people will suffer if at least some of our leaders do not "get it." And for those of you who want a revolution and tell me that "you cannot make an omlet without breaksing some eggs," those "eggs" you are referring to might be your elderly mother, a poor unemployed single mother, or a man despertately trying to feed his newborn child, so I am not breathlessly saying "Viva la revolucion!" . This thread is about the 2011 elections and its candidates. It is not about which system is best; it is about the three E's and hopefully electing those who will try to make as orderly a transition to a less oil dependent, more locally-based lifestyle as we possibly can. Transition solutions may be found on both sides of the aisle, politically, or from 3rd party candidates. Let's stay open to the idea that as we (hopefully) stair-step down into a simpler lifestyle we need all the true leaders we can find.
Print
I've always felt that if lil'ole me can work it out, so can anybody in power. And, if you "get it" like I do, then you quickly come to realise this is a problem with no solution. Or at least no solution the electorate would vote for (excluding those here present of course..).
So I've come to the conclusion it doesn't matter whether they get it or not, they won't do anything about it.
Eventually enough people WILL "get it" to realise we need a reboot.... but by then it will be too late. The proverbial rock and a hard place.
Mike
Peace on Terra http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/roeoz/
Safewrite
On a national level none of them see the three Es from what I can tell. Ron Paul talks about some of the problems with the Economy, but his view is still not broad enough for even that topic. Even if a politician “gets it” he can’t talk about it if he wants to be elected. Voters know we are in serious trouble but their understanding is very limited and focused on political points. They won’t face up to the extent of the problems, or what will be required to deal with them. As Dshields has often said, we brought this on ourselves. We elected these clowns because we like the lies they tell us. I think voters are starting to get ahead of the politicians now, but not enough to matter before the wheels come off. We just want things to get back to “normal” so we can go on being oblivious in comfort.
Travlin
You can always trust your government -- to do anything necessary to preserve itself. Travlin
So I've come to the conclusion it doesn't matter whether they get it or not, they won't do anything about it.
Even if they did get it, I doubt they could actually do anything about it, what with all the lobbyists and trying to get things through congress/senate etc. So I'm with you Mike, it doesn't matter. I don't see anything changing until it all collapses and we hit rock bottom.
what with all the lobbyists and trying to get things through congress/senate etc.
I worry less about the lobbyists and congress and more about all the people who believe they will get SS, Medicare, Medicaid, pensions, retirement, .... All those promises that can not be fulfilled. We need a leader that will step up and say "Sorry, your screwed and have been lied to for years, and no you can't have the things you were promised no matter who is in office.". The problem is people don't want to hear the truth. They want the promise that they will get what they have been told. They will vote for whomever promises the status quo.
So no, I have little hope we will get politicians that will make a difference until it becomes apparent the past promises will be broken. Ron Paul is one of the few that is stepping up and saying "We are broke and we have to cut in all areas". But as many (most?) consider that crazy talk, it is clear we will not get much change in our current trajectory.
I think voters are starting to get ahead of the politicians now, but not enough to matter before the wheels come off.
I don't think they are really getting ahead of the politicians, instead I think we see those that are begining to feel the impact of the lies. They are looking for who took away the piggy bank, instead of recognizing that there is no piggy bank.
I've heard Ron Paul speak in person three times, and had one brief conversation with him. Of all the candidates, he is the one closest to "getting it". He recognizes most, if not all, of the economic issues with which we are concerned. If I understand him correctly, I think he views the economic mess in a fashion similar to CM's discrimination between "problems" and "predicaments". Problems have solutions, while predicaments have consequences. I think Ron Paul understands this crucial difference. While his stances on "Audit the Fed" and a return to a "Gold Standard" may seem simplistic, I don't think he believes either of these are "solutions", but rather "responses" to our predicament. I certainly agree with him that we need to refocus our military on defense, as opposed to offense, saving the U.S. billions of dollars annually. I also agree with him on the need to drastically reduce the size of the federal government and social "entitlements". With regard to healthcare expenditures, which is our single largest fiscal problem going forward, I also feel that Ron Paul has a much better grasp of the issue than any of the other candidates. Recognizing that such realities are not problems that can be solved, but predicaments which must be ameliorated, is an advantage I see in Ron Paul.
With regard to the other two "Es", I can only conjecture. In my brief discussion with him, I did not discuss either "E" per se, but I did speak with him about the futility of pursuing perpetual growth in a finite world. I can't recall his exact response, but it was clear to me that he felt that the emphasis on growth was mistaken, and that at some time our pursuit of growth would come up against our physical limits.
At the same conference at which I spoke with Dr. Paul, I did have more detailed discussions regarding the latter two "Es" with some of the others in attendance, including several who were speakers at the conference. The responses I received were mixed, with one speaker giving me a blank look when I mentioned "Peak Oil", but others who shared my concerns, and even two who had already viewed the "Crash Course" (one of whom is an occasional poster here, too).
FWIW....
Christopher Peters
First, do no harm (primum non nocere), is a good rule in surgery, and in life.
Safewrite
On a national level none of them see the three Es from what I can tell. Ron Paul talks about some of the problems with the Economy, but his view is still not broad enough for even that topic. Even if a politician “gets it” he can’t talk about it if he wants to be elected. Voters know we are in serious trouble but their understanding is very limited and focused on political points. They won’t face up to the extent of the problems, or what will be required to deal with them. As Dshields has often said, we brought this on ourselves. We elected these clowns because we like the lies they tell us. I think voters are starting to get ahead of the politicians now, but not enough to matter before the wheels come off. We just want things to get back to “normal” so we can go on being oblivious in comfort.
Travlin
You are so right. I watched two clips tonight from I guy I believe just lays it out. He runs the dollar collapse site and visit it pretty much every evening. Check out the links below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXLFZaJTPCM&feature=watch_response
Shift/click will start them...
Not that I believe that any one person as president can possibly solve our problems, but what about this guy?
www.facebook.com/pages/Scott-Keller-for-President-2012-For-all-the-People/132961900074309
It depends on what you mean by the 3 E's. If you mean, Exploitation, Extortion, Entropy, they TOTALLY get it!
Ron Paul...
The answer is "no they don't get it". And, they never will. They might personally have seen the crash course and they might actually think about it some and how it might impact their lives but there is no way they are going to pursue a course of action during or after the election that will reflect the 3 E's. They can't. Whether some people around here like it or not, we already know what Obama is up to. The question is what the repubs are up to and the leading repubs (Perry and Mitt) are clearly big spending republicans. Cain is interesting but what I hear him say about the 3 9's plan is a little scary. For instance, today he said if elected president he will cut spending back to match revenue. That's interesting - let's see now - that means he is going to cut (like he can cut it all himself) 45% of social security, 45% of the military, of medicare, medicaid, SNAP (food stamps), section 8 housing, corporate giveaways, union giveaways, 45% of the fed gov employees, 45% of the fed gov.... Let's face it, that is simply not going to happen and if it did the US would experience acme instant depression and civil war. When the people in the cities got tired of killing each other they would leave and fan out and chaos would rule the land. Justice would come from the barrel of a gun. This simply will not be allowed to happen so Cain is full of BS. They all are. The solution that will be picked will be to print and try to inflate our way out. I used to think that would probably work as if it was done right it would be slow and insidious and most people would not be moved to violence. However, i am not so sure any more. There appears to be an awakening happening. Examples would be the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street thing. There are other examples. As more and more people get past the media and start learning the facts it is starting to get interesting. It may well be that America is not going to just roll over like I used to think. Another aspect is when they fed res finished QE2 there was the inflation i expected but salaries did not inflate along with living costs. Previous bouts of inflation also included salaries to one degree or another.
Nope, I do not think any of the candidates represent any fundamental change. If they claim that they do they will not get elected.