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Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

We spend a lot of time on this site discussing the risks posed by Peak Oil. It's important to us that you understand the magnitude of our national/global predicament and take appropriate preparations.

But in addition to tracking the gathering stormclouds (of which there are many), our info scouting efforts also look for developments with potential to change the situation positively.

In the podcast below, Chris and Willett Kempton explore the potential of wind power to reduce the energy pinch threat posed by depleting fossil fuels. Dr. Kempton is an electrical engineering professor at the University of Delaware and director of the Center for Carbon-Free Power Integration. Turns out, while still early in the game, there's action going on in wind and electricity-management that offers real promise.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris’ interview with Willett Kempton:

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The interview covers:

  • The importance of electricity storage in making alternative energies viable, as they have fluctuating production (i.e., the wind doesn't always blow, nor the sun always shine)
  • Current options for increasing our energy output from wind
  • How much of our energy needs could be fulfilled by wind if we pursued it at a Manhattan-project scale (Hint: It's more than you'd think)
  • Strategies for using electricity from wind (and other sources) to create liquid fuels
  • The promise of 'smart' technologies to optimize our consumption and conservation efforts

Some truly novel ideas come up, such as Willett's work around using electrical car fleets as a distributed electricity storage system - returning power from their batteries to the grid when the cars are fully charged and not in use.

As for Peak Oil, Willett agrees the threat is real: "If the population understood what the scientists understand," he says, we'd be fast-tracking moon-shot scale alternative energy infrastructure investments immediately.

  


 

Willett Kempton is Professor, College of Earth, Ocean, and Environment, Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering, and also Director, Center for Carbon-free Power Integration, at the University of Delaware.. He received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the University of Texas, Austin in 1977. He has done extensive research on social and policy aspects of energy use and energy efficiency.

His scholarly articles cover topics such as American citizens' understanding of global climate change, beliefs and behavior regarding home energy, international comparisons of citizens' and policymakers' environmental perspectives, energy efficiency policies, and factors which move citizens to environmental action. He has written one book on theoretical cognitive anthropology, edited three volumes on energy, and most recently coauthored "Environmental Values in American Culture" (1995), a study of Americans' environmental beliefs and values. Kempton has held research or teaching positions at Princeton University, Michigan State University, and the University of California campuses at Berkeley and Irvine, prior to joining the faculty at the University of Delaware in 1992.

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plato1965
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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

 at the moment renewable supply is trivial compared to potential efficiency savings.. "negawatts"

 As the EROI diminishes.. that will become even more true.. a joule saved will be 2.. 5... 7.. 12 .. ++  joules earned...

 the demand side is where "easy", RAPID gains are made.. especially where it involves liquid fuels.. ie transportation.

smart grid: making *full* use of capacity, staggering heavy but non-urgent loads like dishwashing. washing machine, tumble drying, car recharging, and water heating to make use of wasted capacity is a good thing (tm).

the supply side will take time... and I think smart nuclear (pebble bed, thorium ) is the only sane/obvious/practical transition strategy.., not perfect...  plenty of challenges/problems.. but scaleable, and efficient.

 Using nuclear + tar sands for temporary oil is a better idea than wasting natural gas..  anywhere you need concentrated heat , nuclear is a huge win. And the smaller the scale, the bigger the win...  a simple mass produced reactor delivering hot water and electricity to 1000 homes would be worth it's weight in PM's.

 Solar, wind.. are distractions / long term prospects IMO.. same as fusion.

 

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Another fantastic interview Dr. M.,

As usual, your questions made all the difference.

Look out Puplava, Martenson is on fire! Laughing

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Got to get off to work!

Cold Fusion is now 63% replicable.

http://www.lenr-canr.org/

This has the potential to be a game changer, if we can work out the theory behind it. We have the practical skills but not the theory.

It seems as though the helium trapped in the lithosphere is a product of cold fusion, and that the reason the planet's core is hot is cold fusion.

One has to disengage the chatter of the left hemisphere to assimilate new information.

(See "The Master and his Emissary" on Amazon.)

http://www.amazon.com/Master-His-Emissar...

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Dorrian
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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Regarding LENR:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4967330n&tag=related;photovideo
(60-Minutes-Clip about LENR, April 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLEMl5WLw3o
(Dr. Robert Duncan of the University of Missouri on LENR, May 2009. Dr. Duncan gives a very informative speech on LENR)

Just recently, Gerald Celente put LENR on his newest trends forecast. He said he expected an energy revolution from it, but he didn't tell the time frame. I think it was in a King World News interview where he mentioned it.

The question is: If LENR should become technological and commercial viable, what would that mean for our planet? Even more exponential population growth? I consider "Peak Fossil Energy" as both a threat and chance to shrink our world population to a sustainable level. But if LENR became reality, this would push everything to a completely new level.

So I am keeping an eye on LENR, that's for sure. :)

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Compresed Air

 

Has anyone ever considered hooking wind turbines to pump air into compressed air storage tanks, which can then be used to power household appliance?

Some Amish have a lot of experience with using compressed air to power work tools (drills, lathes), blenders, washing machines, etc. Air cars are a proven technology - powered with compressed air.

With clean compressed air, you don't have to deal with chemical batteries or hazardous wastes disposal after the batteries are done, or rare earth minerals. The tanks act as storage for when the wind doesn't run, and can power dynamos to provide power and light.

Poet

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Re: Compresed Air

I belong to several science/altenative energy discussion forums where they discussed the pros/cons of such ideas.  apparently there is a pretty significant loss of energy in the transfer.  of course that doesn't matter if the energy is free, but the size of the tank vs payback is also not very good.

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,135908.0.html

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

I think both solar and wind power should be used to produce hydrogen on site.

 My thinking on this is as follows. When you save that electricity in a battery it 'leaks' away relatively quickly. If instead you used the electricity to create hydrogen onsite the the hydrogen could be stored indefinitely with very little loss. It could also be shipped across the counrty via hydrogen vehicles that don't have the heavy load issues that electric cars have, due to battery depletion. In other words you could use hydrogen in large trucks, something that 'electric' vehicles have a hard time with right now. Yes I know that electric/hydrogen conversion is not very efficient but the source is relatively free.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Johnny Oxygen wrote:

I think both solar and wind power should be used to produce hydrogen on site.

 My thinking on this is as follows. When you save that electricity in a battery it 'leaks' away relatively quickly. If instead you used the electricity to create hydrogen onsite the the hydrogen could be stored indefinitely with very little loss.

I hate to tell you this....  but hydrogen atoms are so small they escape through the walls of any container, and the higher the pressure the faster it escapes!  This is one of the major hurdles of the so called "Hydrogen Economy".

If you're going to do this, then you'd have to use the H2 up pretty quick....

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Maybe special adamatium tanks lined with kryptonite?

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Re: Combating Peak Oil with Wind and Smarter Electric Power

Here's an interesting email I received from a reader on the subject of wind turbines.  This is out of my depth on the subject, but I offer it as a starting point for conversation.  

Chris,

A bit more on wind turbines. I have spent quite a bit of time researching this over the years and have a couple of great articles which I can’t send to you at the moment because they are on another computer which had a hard drive problem and I am not smart enough in that area to transfer it over. Waiting on younger family hotshots to do it. Severe weather has a far greater effect on wind and solar than most people realize and this is because most people don’t understand the dynamics of a thunderstorm. I have visited the US four times and am familiar with your weather and your tornadoes and ice storms. Any decent sized thunderstorm any where in the world, but particularly in latitudes 10 to 40 degrees from the equator can have severe wind gusts, hail and lightning especially when triggered by heat and mountain uplift. When a storm gets a top above 40,000’ it generates strong up draughts and down bursts inside often exceeding 200 m.p.h. and can rise or grow at in excess of 6000’ per minute. Lightning can have a voltage above 50 billion volts and the temperature generated above 30,000 C. Here in Australia, in airline operations, I have seen thunderstorms with tops to 70,000’ – now they really are severe. In fact as an aside the highest thunderstorm ever recorded was 94,000’ at the bottom of the Gulf of Carpentaria in Queensland – this was verified by radar by a US Air Force aircraft flying from Guam to Amberley Air Force base.

They are finding now that gear boxes and bearings cannot stand the strain of the severe gusts and no matter what earthing material you place in the blade and tower, those temperatures and voltages do damage. The German insurance industry will not insure wind turbines unless the gear boxes are replaced every 5 years and they cost in excess of 20% of the total cost. The National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado state that they are seeing gearboxes fail in as little as three years and that email I sent before states that the six massive 5GW turbines offshore in Germany needed the gears boxes replaced after 2 months. What the designers don’t understand is that the forces on those blades are so great that no gear box can be designed to withstand those loads over time. A 3/5 GW turbine can have blades up to 400’ in diameter with a single blade weighing between 8-10 ton.

Above 55 m.p.h they need to be “feathered” that is moved parallel to the airflow to reduce drag and stress on the gear box and bearings – this is done mechanically with a hydraulic brake, but the problem that they don’t understand is that when a storm passes the wind veers 180 degrees, quite suddenly, as the wind east of the storm feeding it with moisture, is overtaken by the storm’s own speed and direction of travel. This is quite violent and I have seen it with storms crossing an aerodrome – the result is the wind has not only changed direction suddenly, there can be downbursts under the cell with the wind coming from all directions. No wonder the blades are stressed and fracture or fail under theses conditions, with aerodynamic stress, load stress, torque stress and about three other forces all in action together. Another consideration is that over time all materials having significant mass and which rotate, are subject to centrifugal force, and this causes the mass of the atomic structures to migrate outwards. This is why there are limits to the size of flywheels and why large helicopter blades have to balanced every six months and in opposite pairs. Aircraft propellers have to be overhauled every 2000 hours. Can you start to see the problem of a large wind turbine sitting high on a ridge in an exposed location being subjected to these dangers and why they fail.

Above 42C most turbines have to shut down because of gearbox overheating and below –15C, freezing problems cause a similar limitation. Any ice or snow accumulation would cause out of balances problems as do bird droppings, and pitting and damage by rain, hail and dust. Off shore the winds are stronger, salt water is corrosive and impossible to prevent entering electrical equipment over time. Marine growth on structures, hurricanes and big seas are other issues not fully appreciated. The cost of maintenance can be up to 10 times higher because of weather limitations on boats and helicopters and finding days with calm winds – they are dangerous places to work. One link which I will send shows a photo of a wind turbine in Germany with the tower lying sideways on the ground and the whole concrete base pulled clean out of the ground as well as lightning damage and stress fractures to blades and gear box wear. Another is a good article by J.K Halkema a Dutch electrical engineer with much experience on European grids and high voltage switching.

That’s enough for now.

Cheers

Any thoughts?  Seems like some legitimate concerns there to me.

One of my biggest concerns is that there is not yet, even remotely close to being done yet, a single manufacturing process that runs, beginning to end, just on electricity.

And by "beginning to end" I mean from making the mining vehicles that mine the ore that feeds the smelters that were built from electrically run plants that turn out the steel that's used to build the turbines, etc and so forth, including all the necessary components and the feeding and housing of the workers at those plants.

We are a long, long way from a cradle to grave mfg processes for alternative energy devices that  run on electricity.

 

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